What is wrong with the church? Join me in saying...

Last week I asked for your opinion on why we can have such highly rated churches while at the same time the church in American is in decline if not in free fall or collapse.  I can’t find any measure of the church, as a whole, that indicates the church in American is doing well both in terms of numerical growth and in discipleship.

So, back to the question: Why are we Christians in the church in America experiencing high levels of satisfaction with our churches while at the same time our churches are for the most part static or in decline? 

As I read over the numerous answers I received (thank you by the way) a couple of general themes kept recurring.  If you would like to read the answers they are posted at http://beyondharan.blogspot.com/2019/09/here-is-what-you-said.html.  The two very general themes are that we are selfish in our expectation of what the church should be and do and that develops from a failure to die to self.  Also, we have become addicted to the consumer culture and have translated it into our expectation of the church.  If we don’t like the experience at Outback we will go to Ruth Chris.  If the wings at Beef O’Brady’s don’t please us we will watch the game at Buffalo Wild Wings.  If the music at First Tall Steeple Church is too stuffy we will go to Mega-Wonder Church by the interstate. 

When my son was about 5 years old a little girl at church had a crush on him.  As much as a 4 year old can have a crush.  We had been visiting the family and as we were saying our goodbyes the little girl ran up to my son, started dancing, shaking both arms and chanting, “Do you like me? Do you like me?”  The embarrassment of my son was hysterical to watch.  And it was cute coming from a 4 year old girl.  But it feels like the church stands in front of the carnal world dancing and pleading, “Do you like me? Do you like me?”  Christianity has become one more consumer product that is to be marketed and presented as we plead with carnal people to please like us. 

But lest I confess the sins of others I must also confess my own sins.  As a minister I have a tendency to expect the church to provide me with affirmation, love, support, a good salary, benefits and a retirement plan.  I have wanted to work a grueling 29-hour week, use recycled or stolen sermons, and not be bothered with the demands of dysfunctional people that want me to visit them.  I have wanted to be treated like a professional, work like a toddler, and put out like an amateur.  I have fought these tendencies and in most of my ministry I have done a good job of doing so, but when I do I whine like a spoiled 13 year old in private and subtly play the martyr in public.  I think I am not the only one.

I am not saying all preachers are lazy nor am I justifying the evil behavior of clergy killers in the church.  I am saying that as ministers we can identify the problems in our churches, but are less apt to see them in the mirror.  The church is a mess in

America and we in leadership are part of the problem.  We are also the beginning of the solution.  One responder said, “We need a Third Great Awakening.”  That will only happen if we speak the truth and call our people to die to self.   If we speak the truth we may find our churches dismiss us.  We may lose good paying jobs and retirement options might be taken from us.  We may find that we reenter the work force not as professionals but as laborers drawing pay that doesn’t afford the niceties we are accustomed to.  If we find that price too high then we are part of the problem, we are not ready to die to self.  We will go our way, “…grieving; for he (we) was one who owned much property.” 

What is wrong with the American Church?  Join me and let’s all say it together, “I am.”

Here is what you said.

The following are responses to the question "Why does the church have such high ratings and yet is so ineffective?

I believe it’s because we tend to grade ourselves better than we do others. We grade churches the same way.

Jesus said, “Except you deny yourself and follow me you have no part with me.” 

Churches today lack the denying self part. Thankfully, I pastor a growing church but we must deny self to truly follow him. 

Clifton

My opinion:

Within the environment of the "church family" there is a supposed natural family type acceptance that isolates us from the atrocities of the world- drugs, abuse, perverts, etc. In our churches we feel safe and we can find people like us with whom we can feel comfortable. And there is a great deal of affection and love for our family members. However, for those outside the family, we see them as neighbors, good and/or bad, but still neighbors. The good guys outside they're fine as long as they don't pose any difficulties. The bad neighbors- dirty sinners- we like to distance ourselves from them so as not to be confused with them by others. Instead of seeing the lost we seek cleanliness in the fishbowl. For those churches that really do reach outside, they're growing because that was God's intent and following the instructions given us in Matt 28:19,20. Funny how that works.

Tim

Many conservative Christians allow their theological conservatism to bleed into a logistical conservatism, even to the point there they cannot distinguish between the two. Theological conservatism is defending beliefs such as the inerrancy of Scripture, the divinity of Christ, the physical resurrection of Jesus, the trustworthiness of the Bible as an historically accurate record, etc. Logistical conservatism has to do with the style of music, the esthetics of the place of worship, traditional evangelical programs, the way we do "Sunday School,' the time of worship, and so on. The later are the accouterments of the Church, not their essence and if they fail to achieve the purpose, we should be willing to put them all on the table and change as needed. But, if we allow our "conservatism" to bleed into our logistics, then we end up defending these things just as vehemently (or more vehemently) than we do the Gospel itself. 

Greg

We tend to go to the church that matches our theology!
Joe

Churches cater to their people's wants and desired. There is little sound, biblical teaching and even less disciple making. So no growth in spirit, no growth in numbers, no impact in the community.

Dale

Most likely the ones doing the reviews are members/guests of that church. And, the reviews are more oriented toward ‘customer satisfaction’ than anything else. I’m sure that is not intentional on their part, but that also says something. Here’s a thought: through Jesus, God was willing to move all of heaven and earth to save us. (Reread Matthew 27-28, and count the times universal laws were upended!) 

Question is-when was the last time the church was willing to move heaven and earth to save the lost? Surely we have-as we ha e millions of Christians worldwide. 

The question should not be: “are we pleased with our decision or response, BUT, is Christ able to do anything with the response we give?”

Randy

The church is comfortable inside the four walls. Defense is the order of the day instead of offense against the gates of hell. The power of the Spirit is available to every believer if only we allow Him to use us to accomplish His work. 

Rusty

For the most part, I think that as long as church goers believe their needs are being met, then the church is doing a good job, and that it is the pastor’s job to handle those issues outside the church.

Susan

We have chosen to be content. 

Tom

People are satisfied because churches have become a reflection of society, self centered and hedonistic.  It has become an institution that seeks to save itself and as Jesus said, "He that seeks to save himself will loose himself."

Jack

What keeps our churches from being fruitful and effective for Christ – by His standards – in our communities?

In an attempt at brevity, I will list broad-sweeping general observations of unhealthy churches in my experience, such as: insularity; “stranger danger” – circling the wagons; fear of change, thus the need for control (control over and within “my church,” “our church,” control over who is included and excluded, etc.); and all negative, generational fruits from idolatry of the “family church” priorities and dysfunctions, avoiding direct or consistent personal engagement with new people and relationships in the surrounding community.  All of these are signs of over-individualized, personal-security (or half-hearted) faith in Christ.  This more convenient faith is detached from Jesus’ passion for all people and His heart priority for His followers to reach the lost with His love, truth, and grace, instead of judging and forgetting our sisters and brothers He died to save.  Even when we “do missions,” we do the missions we want to do, on our schedule, TO the people we choose to serve occasionally, instead of being in ministry and mission alongside the people Christ wants to reach thru us each week.  Basically: His priorities still are not our priorities, and we are ignoring the Holy Spirit’s promptings and cries.

Paul

A couple reasons come to mind, on a quick first take.  I name these with a descriptive, not prescriptive, lens:  

1. In a culture and context of rapid and frequent change, many congregations represent those churches who cling to some traditions and "stabilities" of another (and longed for) era.  Because of this "clinging" the members frame it as a positive.

2.  Given our cultural epidemic of loneliness and isolation, one's church may be shrinking in size and perhaps in vitality; yet, nonetheless, it provides a tribal and relational belonging.

So, in summary, LONGING for a so-called "glory days" past; and, BELONGING to a group of folk in an era of great change, uncertainty, and isolationism.

Michael

Somehow, the only time God vomits is in the case of The Church at Laidecia. Too neutral. (Just make ‘em happy and keep the $ flowing) as well as those churches who lost their first love. 

Wes

Morning sir. I believe that we have an identity problem in the church. We have lost focus on the priorities and purpose of the church. 
To be brief we’ve made it more about the church instead of Christ. Raising our families in church instead of Christ. 

Andy

In our communities in North Carolina, the buckle of the Bible Belt, we are still looking at the reality of between 65-70% unchurched population. Every multi-housing community, like apartment complexes, is around 95%?unchurched. Then when we see what churches are actually doing or not doing, it is understandable as to why we are not making a greater difference in our communities. Leave the Bible Belt and go to places like Seattle, the unchurched population is over 95%.  

Steve

We live in a society that is all about "me."  In this case, is the worship good for me, does the sermon appeal to me (and my way of thinking), are the other members people that I like and am comfortable with?   Jesus came for our good (absolutely), but didn't always make it appealing or comfortable.  I'd like to think that the church does (at least occasionally) make us think hard, experience different types of worship, and even make us uncomfortable.  But that might not get such good ratings.  

Mary

Everything in this world has been made simpler and easier, including worship.  I see faith as becoming shallow, with an ever expanding gray area between right and wrong.  Come to  worship, sit, enjoy the music, and allow a sermon to tickle your ears, leaving feeling happy and refreshed having logged your attendance.  Then one can rate church as a "5" and go on about one's business.  It's all about feeling good.  May God help us.  We need a 3rd Great Awakening.

Gary

I think the surveys are possibly tainted in that only people with positive responses respond. 

Steven

Luther or perhaps Augustine said “The Church is the Bride of Christ and the Devil’s whore”.  Most churches will sell out if the price is right.  It all depends on what they want and what the price is.  “Keep the power brokers happy, be relevant whatever that is, don’t rock the boat, keep the cash coming in.”  Here is the principle of whores and many churches, “Give me enough of what I want and you can do what you want with me.” To be a follower of Christ we first must die to self", which is message rarely heard and when heard so watered down as to be meaningless.  I believe that in many cases before the people will learn to die to self, a lot of churches will have to die. 

Name withheld on request.

4.76 out of 5. What am I missing?

I have been recently reading and studying through the Revelation.  This time as I am reading through I am attempting to do so with the specific application of being a disciple and not so much about symbolism and eschatology. Making this study about what this teaches me about the church and my life as a disciple.  Forgive me if I am playing anachronistic with the church, but I was wondering if Jesus wrote a Google review of the seven churches how would they do on a scale of one to five?  My guess is that a couple would get a four or five, but most of the churches wouldn’t do so well.  That caused me to wonder how would our churches do?  Which caused me to chase down another rabbit trail. 

I looked up on Google “Churches in (city name withheld)” and looked at their reviews.  I reviewed the first 20 churches to populate the list and to my surprise they all rated pretty high, the lowest score being a 4.4.  The churches in this city rated on average 4.76 which struck me as a bit odd because I seemed to be missing something.  This community has a crime problem, a drug and alcohol addiction problem, there are rumors of corruption in the local government, wide spread educational problems, not to mention a not very well-hidden problem with lovelessness hiding as racism.  How is it that in a community that is suffused with the symptoms of sin every church is extremely good?  One would think that with every church being great that the powers of darkness would be receding if not vanquished.  How can this be?  I have a few ideas of what may be happening.  I do not mean to ridicule or degrade the church, but I am bothered by what I see in the church. 

When Jesus looked at the churches listed in Revelation only the churches at Smyrna and Philadelphia got what we might call 5 out of 5 and those church don’t look much like our churches.  The rest of the churches received less than impressive reviews.  But we judge all our churches as nearly 5’s.

I was preparing to share them and make that the point of this composition.  But I changed my mind because I want your opinion.  I would like for you to take just one or two minutes and tell me, in your judgment, why we as Christians in the church in America are experiencing high levels of satisfaction with our churches while at the same time our churches are for the most part static or in decline? 

By sending an answer you are giving me permission to reproduce your answer (name redacted) in a future blog.  Please try to be brief, most of the readership are preachers and I know we have trouble with brevity, but I hope to share your thoughts and to do them justice I want to keep them in their context which is easier to do if the answer is very short.

Please let me know what you think.  I really want your answers. 

Charlie@colemanssi.com

Dabbling with the Demonic

I am going to take a break from my typical blog to challenge you in a different way.  I recently read, Phenomena by Annie Jocobsen.  This book tells the story of the U.S. Government’s efforts at dabbling in the demonic.  After World War II the U.S. determined to lead the world in every way.  That included participation in cultic practices of ESP, Psychokinetics, remote viewing and other forms of paranormal practices with a view of developing advantages over political adversaries. 

I was aware that there had been an interest in these things by our government, but had no idea how extensive it was.  Our government, which in theory is “one nation under God”, has been seeking the help of the demonic.  Interestingly, almost everyone concerned took one of two positions.  One was that all the paranormal activity was a fraud and a con.  The other was that it was absolutely real and was either the gift of a special few or undeveloped in all but a few people.   No one seems to have actually warned that the powers of the demonic were at work.   Let me retell you one story from the book.  This is edited for the sake of space but is an accurate retelling of Jacobsen’s excellent research.  This involves a remote view experiment.  In this kind of experiment a researcher goes out to a specific location.  The viewer at a specific time attempts to see what the researcher sees and does.  In this case the researcher, a Mr. Green, at the last minute unilaterally changes the location.  He wanted to make sure no one was giving the remote viewer, in this case a psychic named Price, clues about where the researcher would be.  I will pick up from the book:

The driver did as Green asked and pulled into the church parking lot. “I just watched and waited until the prearranged time.   When I got out of the car I crunched across the gravel and into an arbor,” Green recalls.   “I caught my foot on something and nearly tripped.  I walked down to the sacristy the room where the vestments were kept.   I opened a window.  I turned around and walked down the right-hand aisle stopped and stared at a beautiful rose window over the altar.”   From this moment in the church he says it reminded him of his time in seminary school and the strange notion of how different his life might have been as a clergyman instead of joining the CIA.   “Feeling the weight of emotion and deciding to pray I knelt down and said a prayer. I saw this beautiful baptismal font in front of me.   I leaned over and looked into it.  When I was done I crunched across the gravel went back to the car.”  

The experimenters headed back to S.R.I.  “Back at the lab I went into the Faraday cage where the remote viewer, Price, had been in the entire time.   “He was having a cardiac event,” Green recalls.  At minimum he was having an angina attack and possibly he was having an MI, myocardial infarction, also know as a heart attack.

After Price’s heart rate returned to normal he turned to Green and said, “That was the worst experiment I have ever done,” Green recalls Price telling him, “It was just terrible.  It made me so sick.  You walked down an arbor almost tripped and went into the most terrible building I've ever seen in my life.   I saw you walk down an aisle and crumble to your knees.  I began to worry about you.  I saw you lean over and vomit into an octagonal basin. I began to feel nauseated.”

I suppose some would not see the demonic in this event, but to not see it requires eyes that will never see.  So what?  That is the great question that needs to be asked every so often.  I draw three conclusions, some of which may not be popular.

I have come to the conclusion that former President Obama was right.  When Obama said, “America is not a Christian nation,” there was somewhat of an uproar.  I would argue that his description is pretty accurate.  We can certainly say that the founders and most of this nation’s history reflect a Christian world-view.  But I would argue that any government that actively seeks the aid and support of the demonic has a hard time being identified as a Christian nation.

I have come to the conclusion that while running for office, especially in the Bible belt, it is conducive to represent oneself as a Christian, but once elected our leaders are somewhat lackadaisical about that commitment.  It is hard to believe that in the last 70 plus years there has not be a Senator or Congressman or President who was willing to say, “We will not join our national interest to the demonic.”  We have had wars on poverty, drugs, illiteracy, terror and communism not all of which have been effective.  But we have not had one leader who would bring this profound evil to light.  Perhaps the powers of darkness have a stronger hold on Washington than we know.  Indeed I was disappointed to learn that my favorite President, Reagan, would not plan major policies without consulting an astrologer.  Donald Regan wrote “Virtually every major move and decision the Reagans made during my time as White House Chief of Staff was cleared in advance with a woman in San Francisco who drew up horoscopes to make certain that the planets were in a favorable alignment for the enterprise.”

I have come to the conclusion that the allure of political might is so strong that many Christians will wink at the dabbling with the demonic as long as their political affiliations are protected.  With leaders of both parties flirting with the powers of darkness many Christians, of all stripes, seem more concerned with our side winning than any other issue.  The solution is not a political campaign or a press release or a public outcry.  The solution is for us to be about making disciples.  When our faith began Rome was dominated by the occult and the powers of the demonic.  It never stood a chance against the army led by our Lord.  Rome was turned over as the church made disciples who rejected the demonic regardless of where it was found.